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This post has been edited by Jewels: 17 November 2008 - 03:57 PM
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Proving Grounds 3.15 (5.5/1.3)
MultiQuote#2 TM
Posted 09 March 2008 - 04:51 PM
The combat is tedious. All of the levels after the fourth are superfluous. The "puzzles" are bad and uninspired. Town design is horrible. The plot is almost nonexistant.
It's a remake of an older game (Wizardry I), much like Hunted!. Unfortunately, the original sucks. 2.5
It's a remake of an older game (Wizardry I), much like Hunted!. Unfortunately, the original sucks. 2.5
#3 Guest_Smoo_*
Posted 09 March 2008 - 04:52 PM
First I'd like to mention that if I had played Wizardry 1 I would probably give Proving Grounds more points. Since I haven't I can only say that these types of games simply do not work in the BoA engine.
General: Since I know what kind of game wizardry is, I'll accept the dungeons for what they are: boring and repetitive. Finding secret doors all the time is not fun either. Since PG is a combat oriented scenario my party gained about ten levels. I think the author should visit the Louvre and at least change the graphics for the weretiger and the "giant toad" dropped a slith spear. Paying for training is a plus.
The thief script was okay. Otherwise I didn't see any flashy tricks.
Combat: Boring and repetive. I'm not really a fan of the BoA-style combat to begin with. The fights were mostly easy. In the end some of the dragons and spell casters blasted my fighters to smithereens. If I really want to say something positive, I got a helluva lot of healing potions.
Oh and the boss fight was too easy. The baddies couldn't leave the room, so I hasted my fighters and blasted the enemy full of arrows and retreated out of sight.
Plot/Characters: I shouldn't really mention them. If you've played Cresent Valley you know what kind of characters the author can conjure. He does not surprise in this one.
I don't know why I rambled on this much since the scenario is not worth wasting your breath on. Play it only if you like killing zounds of enemies, I don't so:
4.2
(Now if this would have been a well made Eye of the Beholder remake I would have immediately given it +3.0 points.)
General: Since I know what kind of game wizardry is, I'll accept the dungeons for what they are: boring and repetitive. Finding secret doors all the time is not fun either. Since PG is a combat oriented scenario my party gained about ten levels. I think the author should visit the Louvre and at least change the graphics for the weretiger and the "giant toad" dropped a slith spear. Paying for training is a plus.
The thief script was okay. Otherwise I didn't see any flashy tricks.
Combat: Boring and repetive. I'm not really a fan of the BoA-style combat to begin with. The fights were mostly easy. In the end some of the dragons and spell casters blasted my fighters to smithereens. If I really want to say something positive, I got a helluva lot of healing potions.
Oh and the boss fight was too easy. The baddies couldn't leave the room, so I hasted my fighters and blasted the enemy full of arrows and retreated out of sight.
Plot/Characters: I shouldn't really mention them. If you've played Cresent Valley you know what kind of characters the author can conjure. He does not surprise in this one.
I don't know why I rambled on this much since the scenario is not worth wasting your breath on. Play it only if you like killing zounds of enemies, I don't so:
4.2
(Now if this would have been a well made Eye of the Beholder remake I would have immediately given it +3.0 points.)
#4 Guest_Ephesos_*
Posted 09 March 2008 - 04:52 PM
You know... this was painful. It really was. I lost the will to fight after three rooms of random monsters, and it went downhill from there.
There's just nothing here except monsters. I expect that Wizardry was fine for its time and genre, but BoA demands more than that. Hack-n-slash alone does not a scenario make.
Weird teleportation, excessive use of secret doors, and sad-to-nonexistant characterization made this one an unpleasant experience. And I'd personally like to see a female character appear in one of Slack's scenarios who you can't hit on. Just once. Also, some dialogue boxes where each string is more than just one sentence would be nice.
I never played Wizardry, and I never want to... 3.5
There's just nothing here except monsters. I expect that Wizardry was fine for its time and genre, but BoA demands more than that. Hack-n-slash alone does not a scenario make.
Weird teleportation, excessive use of secret doors, and sad-to-nonexistant characterization made this one an unpleasant experience. And I'd personally like to see a female character appear in one of Slack's scenarios who you can't hit on. Just once. Also, some dialogue boxes where each string is more than just one sentence would be nice.
I never played Wizardry, and I never want to... 3.5
#5 ????
Posted 09 March 2008 - 04:52 PM
I've never played Wizardry, but every level, more than once, I was thinking Mordor and Demise. The stupid flirting got annoying (and I only saw the one; only person I talked to besides the king was the innkeeper). The only way I kept sane was to keep the scenario editor open so I could find my way down as quick as I could.
1.5
1.5
#6
Lazarus 
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Posted 09 March 2008 - 04:52 PM
I first played this scenario when it was originally released, I vowed to never do so again.
But I didn't want to cut corners when I went back to replay all the BOA scenarios, and felt obligated to finish PG. I took about 2 minutes to read through the sparse dialog in the opening down, then moved on to the 10 level dungeon crawl. The dungeons were as bad as I remembered, the only way I even managed to finish them was by turning on debug mode. Debug solved the problem of hideously boring and uninspired dungeons, but not the poor dialog and plot. Not only is the plot nonsensical, it's not even consistant; the designer routinely contradicts himself. Trebor claims he has managed to only seize the first four floors of the dungeon, yet you arrive to find said floors infested with random monsters. He also says in the opening dialog that I will become Trebor's personal body guard if I suceed, instead I get a sack of coins and Trebor's scorn.
I could go on and on about how this scenario suffers from "the big room syndrome" (in this case big room is subsituted with many unexplained little rooms full of monsters), instead I'll give you a quick idea of how pointless the dungeon is. Its justification for existing is that the villain needed a place to hide. The amulet creates an entire 10 story dungeon beneath the city, just by him thinking of it.......
Its hard to believe it possible to go downhill from CV, its quite a feat when you consider the poorness of CV. But PG is definitely much worse. There is only one redeeming feature in Proving Grounds. Which was pressing shift + k and dispatching all those pointless monsters with a keystroke, sadly this wasn't even a part of the scenario, I had to add the debug call myself.
The closing line of this scenario sums it up quite well, "You hope you never have to return to the land of Llylgamyn." I couldn't agree more. -2.00-
But I didn't want to cut corners when I went back to replay all the BOA scenarios, and felt obligated to finish PG. I took about 2 minutes to read through the sparse dialog in the opening down, then moved on to the 10 level dungeon crawl. The dungeons were as bad as I remembered, the only way I even managed to finish them was by turning on debug mode. Debug solved the problem of hideously boring and uninspired dungeons, but not the poor dialog and plot. Not only is the plot nonsensical, it's not even consistant; the designer routinely contradicts himself. Trebor claims he has managed to only seize the first four floors of the dungeon, yet you arrive to find said floors infested with random monsters. He also says in the opening dialog that I will become Trebor's personal body guard if I suceed, instead I get a sack of coins and Trebor's scorn.
I could go on and on about how this scenario suffers from "the big room syndrome" (in this case big room is subsituted with many unexplained little rooms full of monsters), instead I'll give you a quick idea of how pointless the dungeon is. Its justification for existing is that the villain needed a place to hide. The amulet creates an entire 10 story dungeon beneath the city, just by him thinking of it.......
Its hard to believe it possible to go downhill from CV, its quite a feat when you consider the poorness of CV. But PG is definitely much worse. There is only one redeeming feature in Proving Grounds. Which was pressing shift + k and dispatching all those pointless monsters with a keystroke, sadly this wasn't even a part of the scenario, I had to add the debug call myself.
The closing line of this scenario sums it up quite well, "You hope you never have to return to the land of Llylgamyn." I couldn't agree more. -2.00-
#10
Lord Grimm
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Posted 06 June 2008 - 10:40 AM
It's a port of some abandonware game that I'd never heard of until I was told that this was actually a port. Go figure.
The Party is hired to dungeon crawl and kill a sorcerer.
Run up to stuff and kill it. Find a corner in a secret passage and wait for your health to regenerate. Repeat as necessary until you make it to the next level down. Then begin again.
Frankly, the only redeeming feature in the scenario is Slack's world wrap scripting, which is really just a bunch of fancy teleportation encounters.
Plot: .5/2
Gameplay: .8/2
Presentability: .5/2
Scripting: 1/2
Personal Enjoyment: .7/2
Rating: 3.5 / 10
The Party is hired to dungeon crawl and kill a sorcerer.
Run up to stuff and kill it. Find a corner in a secret passage and wait for your health to regenerate. Repeat as necessary until you make it to the next level down. Then begin again.
Frankly, the only redeeming feature in the scenario is Slack's world wrap scripting, which is really just a bunch of fancy teleportation encounters.
Plot: .5/2
Gameplay: .8/2
Presentability: .5/2
Scripting: 1/2
Personal Enjoyment: .7/2
Rating: 3.5 / 10
Memeres me, Cicere.
Things will be different when I rule the world.
Everything you Never Wanted to Know about My current Scenario Attempt.
Things will be different when I rule the world.
Everything you Never Wanted to Know about My current Scenario Attempt.
#11
Jumpin' Jehosephat Salmon
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Posted 07 June 2008 - 01:18 AM
Abandonware? I suppose so, as the game was written in 1981, long before most of our members graced this earth. I feel that many people that never played Wizardry are incapable of judging this scenario properly. Sure, it sucks compared to other BoA scenarios, but when judged on how well it accomplishes its aim, it clearly does well. I mean, maybe ports of other games should get rated within that genre, and not against the Kelandon epics. They clearly are not designed with the same intent.
In short, complaining about the design, plot, or gameplay in a 1981 ported game is retarded. Amazingly, Wizardry one was a wildly selling game, despite being designed for the Apple 2, and was the first such game to introduce the D&D cRPG in graphically enhanced form. I feel sad that people are incapable of respecting that heritage.
In short, complaining about the design, plot, or gameplay in a 1981 ported game is retarded. Amazingly, Wizardry one was a wildly selling game, despite being designed for the Apple 2, and was the first such game to introduce the D&D cRPG in graphically enhanced form. I feel sad that people are incapable of respecting that heritage.
#12
Lord Grimm
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Posted 07 June 2008 - 11:00 AM
Salmon, I do admit that I made my evaluation while completely ignorant of the original game's heritage; however, when one decides what to port, one does have to take into consideration the standards by which the medium to which you are porting are held.
I suppose what I'm saying is that a direct port of a game that is over 25 years old is not going to fly well with BoA's audience. Instead of porting, creating an adaptation may be better for communicating the original intent.
I do agree with you, most of us don't seem to appreciate concept of genre from scenario to scenario.
But with this one, genre was not clearly communicated, and it just came off as a bad BoA scenario.
I suppose what I'm saying is that a direct port of a game that is over 25 years old is not going to fly well with BoA's audience. Instead of porting, creating an adaptation may be better for communicating the original intent.
I do agree with you, most of us don't seem to appreciate concept of genre from scenario to scenario.
But with this one, genre was not clearly communicated, and it just came off as a bad BoA scenario.
Memeres me, Cicere.
Things will be different when I rule the world.
Everything you Never Wanted to Know about My current Scenario Attempt.
Things will be different when I rule the world.
Everything you Never Wanted to Know about My current Scenario Attempt.
#13
Jumpin' Jehosephat Salmon
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Posted 07 June 2008 - 11:10 PM
Well, that is a much better review that your first.
Edit - To clarify, the quality and style of the actual review have improved and become more topical. I understand that you still find PG to be lacking.
Edit - To clarify, the quality and style of the actual review have improved and become more topical. I understand that you still find PG to be lacking.
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