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This post has been edited by Jewels: 14 October 2008 - 03:53 PM
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Nephilim Mystery 2.80 (5.0/1.2)
MultiQuote#2 Guest_Kelandon_*
Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:57 PM
Nephilim Mystery reminds me a lot of A Perfect Forest, except much less so. Nephilim Mystery's writing is functional, but it feels clipped. The sentences are simple and declarative but not very pretty. Punctuation is minimal, so the sentences read pretty much straight through. A Perfect Forest was sort of the same way, but APF had a whole lot of details that made it interesting, while NM lacks these details.
APF took place in a remote part of the surface of the world of Avernum, like NM, and both concern nephilim to a great extent. However, APF's nephilim are characters; NM's nephilim are level-edited monsters, and other than shooting arrows, they do nothing that makes them distinctly nephilim. They could be any generic monsters.
APF had combat that frustrated me at moments (particularly the "perfect spirit" bit near the end), and so does NM, except that APF's combat was different throughout and justifiable even when annoying because it was complex and at least interesting from a scripting point of view. NM's combat was the same throughout: kill these thirty level-edited nephilim in outdoor combat. Now kill these thirty level-edited nephilim in outdoor combat. Now kill these thirty level-edited nephilim in a maze indoors. Oh yeah, did I mention it's extremely short?
(For the record, I tried a post-Canopy party at around level 60 and got killed in the first battle repeatedly because the nephilim acted earlier than I did. Then I tried a HLPM level 70 party and had the same problem. Presumably I just designed these parties entirely wrong, but I eventually said, "To heck with it," and I used a god party, and the combat was still annoying. One should basically never have more than 15 of the same enemy in a single outdoor combat.)
Perhaps the problem I had with NM is that it appeared so utterly standard and unoriginal that I had trouble getting into it. It pretty much uses the most bland graphics that it can and it has no custom graphics at all. APF had few, but it used the few that it had to good effect, and APF's visual appearance managed to be appealing, if not extraordinarily beautiful. NM is just dull, visually.
APF suggests that something odd is going on in this remote area, as does NM, but APF gives background and reveals some of the mystery, enough to satisfy the player that there really was a story here and the background really does exist. NM reveals something, but the answers it gives are so minimal and the identity of the true villain so utterly trivial that it begins to sound as though the designer never really came up with the back story for these events.
Put another way, when the scenario has the word "mystery" in its title, I expect an atmosphere of mystery, and NM just didn't do this for me. The real question was not why these nephilim were stronger than normal nephilim or when and how would I find out; the real question was would I care when I did find out? Sadly, it turned out that the answer was no.
There are a few typos here and there ("mithril" is normally spelled thus, and the hut south of the bridge lacks a period at the end of its response when the hut is empty, among others), and occasionally some infelicities of design pop up (having "Leave" be the second option instead of the first in all dialogs, making double-walls at corners for an odd visual effect, among others), but none of these are so egregious as to detract seriously from the playing experience. The problem is that the playing experience isn't that great on its own.
I mean, I didn't really like APF to begin with.
I give it a 4.8: I recognize that even this must've taken a lot of work to make, and playing it wasn't painful (which would put it in the 3 range), but I just didn't enjoy it at all.
EDIT: Just that "thusly" isn't really a word. :rolleyes
APF took place in a remote part of the surface of the world of Avernum, like NM, and both concern nephilim to a great extent. However, APF's nephilim are characters; NM's nephilim are level-edited monsters, and other than shooting arrows, they do nothing that makes them distinctly nephilim. They could be any generic monsters.
APF had combat that frustrated me at moments (particularly the "perfect spirit" bit near the end), and so does NM, except that APF's combat was different throughout and justifiable even when annoying because it was complex and at least interesting from a scripting point of view. NM's combat was the same throughout: kill these thirty level-edited nephilim in outdoor combat. Now kill these thirty level-edited nephilim in outdoor combat. Now kill these thirty level-edited nephilim in a maze indoors. Oh yeah, did I mention it's extremely short?
(For the record, I tried a post-Canopy party at around level 60 and got killed in the first battle repeatedly because the nephilim acted earlier than I did. Then I tried a HLPM level 70 party and had the same problem. Presumably I just designed these parties entirely wrong, but I eventually said, "To heck with it," and I used a god party, and the combat was still annoying. One should basically never have more than 15 of the same enemy in a single outdoor combat.)
Perhaps the problem I had with NM is that it appeared so utterly standard and unoriginal that I had trouble getting into it. It pretty much uses the most bland graphics that it can and it has no custom graphics at all. APF had few, but it used the few that it had to good effect, and APF's visual appearance managed to be appealing, if not extraordinarily beautiful. NM is just dull, visually.
APF suggests that something odd is going on in this remote area, as does NM, but APF gives background and reveals some of the mystery, enough to satisfy the player that there really was a story here and the background really does exist. NM reveals something, but the answers it gives are so minimal and the identity of the true villain so utterly trivial that it begins to sound as though the designer never really came up with the back story for these events.
Put another way, when the scenario has the word "mystery" in its title, I expect an atmosphere of mystery, and NM just didn't do this for me. The real question was not why these nephilim were stronger than normal nephilim or when and how would I find out; the real question was would I care when I did find out? Sadly, it turned out that the answer was no.
There are a few typos here and there ("mithril" is normally spelled thus, and the hut south of the bridge lacks a period at the end of its response when the hut is empty, among others), and occasionally some infelicities of design pop up (having "Leave" be the second option instead of the first in all dialogs, making double-walls at corners for an odd visual effect, among others), but none of these are so egregious as to detract seriously from the playing experience. The problem is that the playing experience isn't that great on its own.
I mean, I didn't really like APF to begin with.
I give it a 4.8: I recognize that even this must've taken a lot of work to make, and playing it wasn't painful (which would put it in the 3 range), but I just didn't enjoy it at all.
EDIT: Just that "thusly" isn't really a word. :rolleyes
#3 TM
Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:57 PM
Mithril is a beast of a word- Since it doesn't actually exist, I've seen it spelled in a myriad of ways in various professional, released games. (Mythril, mithryl, mithral, etc.)
The rest of Kel's review, however, is spot-on, if not a bit verbose.
PS- The true villain is the Vahnatai!!!
EDIT: Okay, okay. On second thought, NM isn't as bad as UV. 3.5
The rest of Kel's review, however, is spot-on, if not a bit verbose.
PS- The true villain is the Vahnatai!!!
EDIT: Okay, okay. On second thought, NM isn't as bad as UV. 3.5
#4 Salmon
Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:57 PM
Well. I may have had some fun, but it had nothing to do with the neph or the cookie cutter town.
The kooky cave with the dark wyrms was frustrating at best. But satisfying at the end.
My major complaint is that treasure is WAAY out of whack. Kill a bunch of nephs and then sort through the garbage. All very nice garbage, but there is no way to haul it into town. Treasure chests contained minimal equipment, and that seemed like a downer after defeating umpteen hydras and a mess of wyrms.
Bugs - A red message came up (something about remove outdoor encounter not working) when I killed the hydra guards.
Score?? 4.1 because the error message didn't halt the game.
The kooky cave with the dark wyrms was frustrating at best. But satisfying at the end.
My major complaint is that treasure is WAAY out of whack. Kill a bunch of nephs and then sort through the garbage. All very nice garbage, but there is no way to haul it into town. Treasure chests contained minimal equipment, and that seemed like a downer after defeating umpteen hydras and a mess of wyrms.
Bugs - A red message came up (something about remove outdoor encounter not working) when I killed the hydra guards.
Score?? 4.1 because the error message didn't halt the game.
#5 Guest_Ephesos_*
Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:58 PM
Ouch... I literally just finished it, and it hurt. It may have been short (and rather small), but having to replay battles four times to not die (while using a level 70 party that's won every single other scenario), and getting a lot of subpar treasure (while ok, my magical stuff was always better).
I almost gave up when I saw the Vahnatai Lord in the maze, because I thought it was another showdown with Rentar (testing UV scarred me). It was satisfying to summon huge armies of stuff to take the thing down, but the plot as a whole was a big letdown. Saying the Vahnatai did it, while only giving the player ONE Vahnatai to kill, is just flat-out evil.
Too many dark-breathing things... the dark wyrm showdown was just painful. I played through all of the combat on normal (though I was tempted to put it on easy after the first battle), and it was still insane.
On the subject of creatures, a bit more creativity would've done wonders. Just upping the level of a nephil and adding better weapons isn't very good when you can't make it work in a story. The two new hydras were just giant slugs and dark wyrms with hydra bodies, with fewer hp, but still capable of slaughtering you (particularly when there's 30 of them!). Other than the two new hydras, there was no creature innovation.
The landscape was bleak to non-existant. There aren't many ways to run from a neph. patrol across an open field, but I think I used them all. Double-walls are just weird-looking, and there were some big gaps into darkness that shouldn't have been there. In the nephil maze, I really expected something helpful BESIDES HIDDEN TREASURE CHESTS!!! Like, maybe have the altar do something, or maybe give the Vahnatai lord some cool stuff... it was too dull, in short.
And the bugs... let's get to the bugs. I heard some people walked away with Dread Curse (nobody knew how), and I couldn't actually complete both quests (the third mithril bar is where?).
I didn't think I'd ever give a rating lower than mine for UV, but it really just hurt to play this... 2.5
I almost gave up when I saw the Vahnatai Lord in the maze, because I thought it was another showdown with Rentar (testing UV scarred me). It was satisfying to summon huge armies of stuff to take the thing down, but the plot as a whole was a big letdown. Saying the Vahnatai did it, while only giving the player ONE Vahnatai to kill, is just flat-out evil.
Too many dark-breathing things... the dark wyrm showdown was just painful. I played through all of the combat on normal (though I was tempted to put it on easy after the first battle), and it was still insane.
On the subject of creatures, a bit more creativity would've done wonders. Just upping the level of a nephil and adding better weapons isn't very good when you can't make it work in a story. The two new hydras were just giant slugs and dark wyrms with hydra bodies, with fewer hp, but still capable of slaughtering you (particularly when there's 30 of them!). Other than the two new hydras, there was no creature innovation.
The landscape was bleak to non-existant. There aren't many ways to run from a neph. patrol across an open field, but I think I used them all. Double-walls are just weird-looking, and there were some big gaps into darkness that shouldn't have been there. In the nephil maze, I really expected something helpful BESIDES HIDDEN TREASURE CHESTS!!! Like, maybe have the altar do something, or maybe give the Vahnatai lord some cool stuff... it was too dull, in short.
And the bugs... let's get to the bugs. I heard some people walked away with Dread Curse (nobody knew how), and I couldn't actually complete both quests (the third mithril bar is where?).
I didn't think I'd ever give a rating lower than mine for UV, but it really just hurt to play this... 2.5
#6 ????
Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:58 PM
*Sorry. I just logged in now.*
Nephilim Mystery wasn't as much as much a scenario as it was a medium-large quest; you get an outdoor combat and a main dungeon to complete it. There was not enough use of dialogue, especially with the mayor, who hardly helps with defining the "story" at all. I sort of had to run around for a while, trying to scrounge up as much information as I could.
SPOILER:
It got the first bit of real info with an outdoor combat of about 50 modified Nepharim archers executing my leader on the first turn. The "clue" of the Vahnatai scroll wasn't very creative or effective, as it only showed how lazy and one-dimentional the characters were. Figuring out that one Vahnatai Lord (who seemed to be weaker than the regular monsters) had either modified the abilities of, or "created" a bunch of Nephar, seemed unreasonable and disapointing. Even in the end, the special tells you that "something doesn't seem right," making the scenario seem unfulfilling. A "tangible" reflection of that is the same type of treasure dropped over and over again by the same monsters played over and over again. Ultimately, it seems like the designer threw a dart at a map of monsters, and expounded upon whatever subject it hit.
The dark wyrm mission tries to make the game interesting and does help explain the hydras from Arcane Summon, which it sort of does, but it also seems kind of random and has nothing to do with anything. On the plus sides, it really was a nice thing to keep my level 82 party busy, and it was cool to kill some Nephar. I also like the title, although it should be called "Nepharim Mystery."
1.5
Nephilim Mystery wasn't as much as much a scenario as it was a medium-large quest; you get an outdoor combat and a main dungeon to complete it. There was not enough use of dialogue, especially with the mayor, who hardly helps with defining the "story" at all. I sort of had to run around for a while, trying to scrounge up as much information as I could.
SPOILER:
It got the first bit of real info with an outdoor combat of about 50 modified Nepharim archers executing my leader on the first turn. The "clue" of the Vahnatai scroll wasn't very creative or effective, as it only showed how lazy and one-dimentional the characters were. Figuring out that one Vahnatai Lord (who seemed to be weaker than the regular monsters) had either modified the abilities of, or "created" a bunch of Nephar, seemed unreasonable and disapointing. Even in the end, the special tells you that "something doesn't seem right," making the scenario seem unfulfilling. A "tangible" reflection of that is the same type of treasure dropped over and over again by the same monsters played over and over again. Ultimately, it seems like the designer threw a dart at a map of monsters, and expounded upon whatever subject it hit.
The dark wyrm mission tries to make the game interesting and does help explain the hydras from Arcane Summon, which it sort of does, but it also seems kind of random and has nothing to do with anything. On the plus sides, it really was a nice thing to keep my level 82 party busy, and it was cool to kill some Nephar. I also like the title, although it should be called "Nepharim Mystery."
1.5
#7 ????
Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:59 PM
Seeing as how I beta tested this scenario before the summer I feel some what bad. However all the things people have mentioned I told Seletine in my beta reports. I even suggested that people be told from the out set that the scenario may be more enjoyable if a god party is used. I also suggested that the monsters be drastically reduced in number or power. Any way NM deserves a 6.5 if the fights were reasonable. A game should be fun not pure tedium. I'll give it 5.0. I don't believe in so-called failing grades. Give it another try it's nowhere the dreadful level of UV.
#8 ????
Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:59 PM
Please don't simply throw mobs of edited trash monsters at us to make it more difficult. It's enough to say that the scenario is a frustrating waste of time, but I want to talk about the terrain. The outside areas seemed designed to be sparse and ugly, what with the limp tunnels that end in a single hut that does something.
I actually think undead valley was better. It's easier, therefore I dont have to suffer it as long.
Edit this thing or delete it from the site, because no one will take pleasure from this unless they have downs syndrome and the HLPM.
1.2
I actually think undead valley was better. It's easier, therefore I dont have to suffer it as long.
Edit this thing or delete it from the site, because no one will take pleasure from this unless they have downs syndrome and the HLPM.
1.2
#9
Lazarus 
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Posted 09 March 2008 - 10:00 PM
This scenario is simply painful without a god party, not that you'll last more than two seconds to figure this out. It is almost tollerable with one, but it really just isn't worth the effort.
Awful combat, vahnatai created plagues, level edited monsters, out of whack treasure- all the signs of a bad scenario. So why do I give it a 3.0? It's shorter than UV (A very good thing) and..... well nothing else good comes to mind, so "Because I can."
Awful combat, vahnatai created plagues, level edited monsters, out of whack treasure- all the signs of a bad scenario. So why do I give it a 3.0? It's shorter than UV (A very good thing) and..... well nothing else good comes to mind, so "Because I can."
#10 Guest_Nioca_*
Posted 09 March 2008 - 10:01 PM
Seriously, there's been some scenarios that I've disliked, but this is one of the few that actually inflicted physical pain. Ridiculous combat, poor dialogue, nonsensical story, and did I mention the 40+ super nephils with god-like archery skills, all packed into a single outdoor combat?
The only redeeming factor to this scenario was the Hydra Pit. And it's the only thing that keeps from rating this below a two.
Final Rating: 2.0
The only redeeming factor to this scenario was the Hydra Pit. And it's the only thing that keeps from rating this below a two.
Final Rating: 2.0
#11 Nikki
Posted 09 March 2008 - 10:01 PM
Quite possibly the worst thing to grace BoA (I've not played Shitwrecked yet)...
It was just a chore to play. It was so off-balanced and so dull, that I found it hard not to just quit and play Frostbite again.
Oh, and level-edited monsters are NOT a suitable foe.
2.0
It was just a chore to play. It was so off-balanced and so dull, that I found it hard not to just quit and play Frostbite again.
Oh, and level-edited monsters are NOT a suitable foe.
2.0
#12
Lord Grimm
- I am the Very Model of a Modern Forum Spammer
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Posted 06 June 2008 - 09:02 AM
Don't.
Unless you want to learn exactly what not to do when designing, just don't.
Plot: 0/2
Gameplay: .2/2
Presentability: .6/2
Scripting: .5/2
Personal Entertainment: .5/2
Rating: 1.8/10
Unless you want to learn exactly what not to do when designing, just don't.
Plot: 0/2
Gameplay: .2/2
Presentability: .6/2
Scripting: .5/2
Personal Entertainment: .5/2
Rating: 1.8/10
Memeres me, Cicere.
Things will be different when I rule the world.
Everything you Never Wanted to Know about My current Scenario Attempt.
Things will be different when I rule the world.
Everything you Never Wanted to Know about My current Scenario Attempt.
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